Dr. John H. Watson, M.D. (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
lightconductor) wrote2010-05-08 10:52 pm
lightconductor) wrote2010-05-08 10:52 pm
Entry tags:
A reading courtesy of Shahrazad.
I thought of this randomly tonight, went to look it up, and smirked at it a bit, particularly at the translated poetry involved. For some reason I own a copy of "The Thousand Nights and One Night (Volume II)" and I recalled a very short story in it which basically comes down to a debate between a wise sage and a learned woman about whether or not it's better for a man to be attracted towards men or women.
I was compelled to then type it up painstakingly and probably nobody will read it but eh, here it is anyway. It is not really pro-gay. It's not exactly anti-gay either. It is, however, pretty sexist in bits, fair warning.
Girls or Boys?
The Sage Umar al-Humsi relates:
There came to Hamah, in the five hundred and sixty-third year of the Flight, the most eloquent and learned woman in all Baghdad, she whom the wise men of Irak called the Mistress of the Masters; and there flocked to the same place the most diversely erudite men of that time, for the pleasure of hearing her and asking her questions. For I must tell you that this most marvellous of all women used to to journey from country to country with her young brother, for the purpose of holding public argument on the most difficult subjects and of asking and answering questions on science and law, theology and literature.
Wishing to hear her, I asked my learned old friend, al-Salihani, to come with me to the place of that day’s argument. We both entered the hall where the lady Dahia, for that was her name, sat behind a silk curtain so as not to offend the custom of religion, and placed ourselves upon benches, where her brother served us with fruit and other refreshment.
I had my name and titles taken to Dahia with the suggestion that we should old an argument in divine jurisprudence and the interpretation of religious law. While we were waiting for an answer, my friend, the venerable al-Salihani, fell in love with Dahia’s young brother, a lad of most extraordinary beauty, and could not keep his eyes off him. Dahia noticed my companion’s distractions and, looking at him closely, understood what was engaging his attention. She suddenly called his name, saying: “It seems to me, old man, that you belong to the number of those who prefer boys to girls.”
“Certainly,” answered my friend with a smile. “And why?” she asked. Then said he: “Because Allah modelled the bodies of boys into admirable perfection, making them unlike those of women, and my tastes have always led me to prefer the perfect to the imperfect.” She laughed behind her curtain, saying: “very well, if you are ready to defend your opinion, I am equally ready to attack it.” Then, when he had accepted the challenge, she continued: “Attempt to prove that men and boys are preferable to women and girls.” Thereupon my friend said:
“For half of my proof I shall rely on logic, and for the other half on the authority of the Book and the Sunnah.
“The Koran says: ‘Men surpass women because Allah has given them superiority.’ It also says: ‘A man’s share in an inheritance shall be twice that of a woman; the brother shall have double the portion of the sister.’ These holy words prove once and for all that a women is only worth half a man.
“From the point of view of pure logic, reason confirms this tradition. Let us ask ourselves simply which takes the first place, activity or passivity? Without a doubt the answer will be in favour of activity. Now man is the active principle in life and woman the passive; therefore, past peradventure, woman is below man and a boy preferable to a girl.”
Dahia answered:
“Your quotations are correct. I agree that Allah in His Book preferred men to women in a general sense. But He did not speak specifically. If you seek for perfections, why do you only go to young boys for it? Surely you ought to prefer bearded men, venerable ancients, with wrinkled brows. For such have journeyed much farther along the way of perfection.”
He answered:
“I certainly would prefer them to old women, but that is not the question; for the matter under discussion is the seduction of boys. Surely you will admit that a woman has nothing which can be compared with the beauty of a youth, his supple waist, his fine drawn limbs, the tender mingling of colour in his cheeks, his gentle smile, the charm of his voice? The Prophet himself, in putting us on our guard against so evident a danger,, said: ‘Do not look long upon beardless boys, for their eyes hold more of temptations than the eyes of huris.’ Remember, too, that the greatest praise that a man can find for the beauty of a girl is to compare it with the beauty of a boy. The poet Abu Nuwas expressed that and more, when he wrote:
Allah save
In our joy!
Shout it forth:
She had thights
Like a boy
And so can waver
As the palm of the banana
In the North.
“If the beauty of boys was not noticeably superior to that of girls, why should poets make use of the comparison?
“Also a youth is not content only with his beauty; he can ravish our hearts with his language and the perfection of his manners. And how delicious a thing it is to see young down beginning to shade his lips and cheeks, those marriage-beds of roses! Is anything in the world comparable with that charming period of transition? Abu Nuwas said excellently again:
‘Over-red with the outcome of hairs.’
O what a fault is theirs!
For now the face shows up
Like pearls in a bright green cup;
And as the hairs grow longer
It’s a sign his thighs are stronger.
Roses swear faith to his cheek,
His eyelids speak,
His brows reply.
Also the down hides from your foolish eyes
That face which gives a poppy to the wine
And has green shade to make the silver shine.
Another poet said:
They say I am blind to the hairs on that dear face,
Loving it still;
But I could not bear the white of it otherwise.
I loved the barren garden place;
How should I take it ill
When wet Spring paints my garden with surprise?
And another said:
I loved him when he had but roses;
Only a fool supposes
I could forget
Now he had added myrtle, violet....
And another, one out of a thousand, said:
His cheeks and eyes compare
The numbers of their slain,
His sword is of narcissus,
Its handle is of myrtle…
Nay, beauty would dismiss us
And loose her final kirtle
If she could swear
She had got back again
The beauty of her world,
This child-hair curled.
“Surely I have given you enough proofs that a lad’s beauty is greater than female beauty at any age.”
Dahia answered: “May Allah pardon you your fallacious arguments, unless, perhaps, you advance them merely as a joke. Be that as it may, the time has come for truth to triumph; therefore do not harden your heart but prepare to admit the verity of what I say.
“Tell me, in Allah’s name, where we may find a youth whose beauty is comparable with that of a young girl? A girl’s skin has not only the light and whiteness of silver but the softness of silk. Her waist is a branch of myrtle, her mouth a flowering camomile, her lips to moist anemones. Her cheeks are apples and her breasts are little ivory gourds. Light shines from her forehead and her brows ceaselessly hesitate as to whether they should meet or part. When she speaks, there is a flash as of fine pearls; when she smiles, a river of sunlight flows out of lips sweeter than honey and softer than butter. The seal of beauty has made the dimple of her chin, and her belly is beautiful. The lines of her thighs are excellent, folding one over the other. Her flanks are fashioned all of one ivory and her feet are moulded of almond paste. Her bottom is full and not depressed, the waves of a crystal sea or mountains of the moon. Old man of weak understanding, do you not know that kings, khalifahs, and all the great of the annals, have bowed themselves to the yoke of women, considering it a glory? Mighty men have knelt before them, leaving riches, land, father and mother, and even kingdoms for their sake. On their account palaces rise to heaven, silks are woven and stuffs brocaded. Because of them amber and musk, which have a sweet smell, are sought over the whole earth. Their beauty has damned the dwellers in Paradise, has overset the earth, and made rivers of blood to spring forth among all nations.
“You have quoted from the Book, but it is more favourable to my contention than to yours. The Book says: ‘Do not look long upon beardless boys, for their eyes hold more of temptation than the yes of huris.’ Now that is direct praise of the huris, who are women and not boys. I have always noticed, too, that you, who love boys and wish to describe them, compare their caresses with those of girls. You are not ashamed of your corrupt tastes; you parade them, you satisfy them in public. You forget the words of the Book: ‘Why do you seek out male love? Has not Allah created women for the satisfaction of your desires, that you may enjoy them as you will? But you were ever a stiff-necked people.’ When you compare girls with boys, you simply flatter your corrupt desires. We know your boy-loving poets well! The greatest of them all, Abu Nuwas, the king of pederasts, spoke thus of a young girl:
You have no hips
And you have cut your hair,
Also their lies a light shade even
Upon your lips.
Dear child, by this exceptions and this dearth
You’ll have two kinds of lovers upon earth
And more in heaven.
“As for the pretended attraction of a beard in young men, a poet has answered that excellently:
Wise lovers fled at the first ugly hair
Which charcoal-smutched that chin beyond compare,
When the white page is covered with black prose
Who but a fool would write his lyrics there?
“Give thanks to Allah for uniting in women every joy of life, and promising to prophets, saints and all believers, marvellous girls for their reward in Paradise. If the All-Good had thought that there could be any pleasant lusts apart from women, He would have reserved them for and promised them to His faithful servants after their death. But Allah only mentions young boys as being servants of the elect in Heaven; He does not speak of them as having any other function. The Prophet himself (upon whom be prayer and peace!) had no sort of leaning in your direction. In fact he used to say: ‘Three things have made me love your earth: woman, perfume, and the beauty of a soul in prayer.’ I cannot recapitulate my argument better than by quoting this verse of the poet:
Between the bottoms of the young
(Now I give freedom to my tongue)
A gulf is fixed.
To approach some is suave incense,
But others, a deep brown offence
Within your garment mixed.
Who dare
Compare
A girl and boy--
What hardihood!--
For nard he would
Employ an old sow’s dung....
Between the bottoms of the young
A gulf is fixed.
“But I see that this discussion has excited me too much and made me pass those bounds of modesty which no woman should cross in the presence of sages and old men. Therefore I beg pardon of any who have found such criticism to make in what I have said, and I rely on them to use discretion in telling others of this argument. The proverb says: ‘The hearts of well-born men are tombs.’”
I was compelled to then type it up painstakingly and probably nobody will read it but eh, here it is anyway. It is not really pro-gay. It's not exactly anti-gay either. It is, however, pretty sexist in bits, fair warning.
Girls or Boys?
The Sage Umar al-Humsi relates:
There came to Hamah, in the five hundred and sixty-third year of the Flight, the most eloquent and learned woman in all Baghdad, she whom the wise men of Irak called the Mistress of the Masters; and there flocked to the same place the most diversely erudite men of that time, for the pleasure of hearing her and asking her questions. For I must tell you that this most marvellous of all women used to to journey from country to country with her young brother, for the purpose of holding public argument on the most difficult subjects and of asking and answering questions on science and law, theology and literature.
Wishing to hear her, I asked my learned old friend, al-Salihani, to come with me to the place of that day’s argument. We both entered the hall where the lady Dahia, for that was her name, sat behind a silk curtain so as not to offend the custom of religion, and placed ourselves upon benches, where her brother served us with fruit and other refreshment.
I had my name and titles taken to Dahia with the suggestion that we should old an argument in divine jurisprudence and the interpretation of religious law. While we were waiting for an answer, my friend, the venerable al-Salihani, fell in love with Dahia’s young brother, a lad of most extraordinary beauty, and could not keep his eyes off him. Dahia noticed my companion’s distractions and, looking at him closely, understood what was engaging his attention. She suddenly called his name, saying: “It seems to me, old man, that you belong to the number of those who prefer boys to girls.”
“Certainly,” answered my friend with a smile. “And why?” she asked. Then said he: “Because Allah modelled the bodies of boys into admirable perfection, making them unlike those of women, and my tastes have always led me to prefer the perfect to the imperfect.” She laughed behind her curtain, saying: “very well, if you are ready to defend your opinion, I am equally ready to attack it.” Then, when he had accepted the challenge, she continued: “Attempt to prove that men and boys are preferable to women and girls.” Thereupon my friend said:
“For half of my proof I shall rely on logic, and for the other half on the authority of the Book and the Sunnah.
“The Koran says: ‘Men surpass women because Allah has given them superiority.’ It also says: ‘A man’s share in an inheritance shall be twice that of a woman; the brother shall have double the portion of the sister.’ These holy words prove once and for all that a women is only worth half a man.
“From the point of view of pure logic, reason confirms this tradition. Let us ask ourselves simply which takes the first place, activity or passivity? Without a doubt the answer will be in favour of activity. Now man is the active principle in life and woman the passive; therefore, past peradventure, woman is below man and a boy preferable to a girl.”
Dahia answered:
“Your quotations are correct. I agree that Allah in His Book preferred men to women in a general sense. But He did not speak specifically. If you seek for perfections, why do you only go to young boys for it? Surely you ought to prefer bearded men, venerable ancients, with wrinkled brows. For such have journeyed much farther along the way of perfection.”
He answered:
“I certainly would prefer them to old women, but that is not the question; for the matter under discussion is the seduction of boys. Surely you will admit that a woman has nothing which can be compared with the beauty of a youth, his supple waist, his fine drawn limbs, the tender mingling of colour in his cheeks, his gentle smile, the charm of his voice? The Prophet himself, in putting us on our guard against so evident a danger,, said: ‘Do not look long upon beardless boys, for their eyes hold more of temptations than the eyes of huris.’ Remember, too, that the greatest praise that a man can find for the beauty of a girl is to compare it with the beauty of a boy. The poet Abu Nuwas expressed that and more, when he wrote:
Allah save
In our joy!
Shout it forth:
She had thights
Like a boy
And so can waver
As the palm of the banana
In the North.
“If the beauty of boys was not noticeably superior to that of girls, why should poets make use of the comparison?
“Also a youth is not content only with his beauty; he can ravish our hearts with his language and the perfection of his manners. And how delicious a thing it is to see young down beginning to shade his lips and cheeks, those marriage-beds of roses! Is anything in the world comparable with that charming period of transition? Abu Nuwas said excellently again:
‘Over-red with the outcome of hairs.’
O what a fault is theirs!
For now the face shows up
Like pearls in a bright green cup;
And as the hairs grow longer
It’s a sign his thighs are stronger.
Roses swear faith to his cheek,
His eyelids speak,
His brows reply.
Also the down hides from your foolish eyes
That face which gives a poppy to the wine
And has green shade to make the silver shine.
Another poet said:
They say I am blind to the hairs on that dear face,
Loving it still;
But I could not bear the white of it otherwise.
I loved the barren garden place;
How should I take it ill
When wet Spring paints my garden with surprise?
And another said:
I loved him when he had but roses;
Only a fool supposes
I could forget
Now he had added myrtle, violet....
And another, one out of a thousand, said:
His cheeks and eyes compare
The numbers of their slain,
His sword is of narcissus,
Its handle is of myrtle…
Nay, beauty would dismiss us
And loose her final kirtle
If she could swear
She had got back again
The beauty of her world,
This child-hair curled.
“Surely I have given you enough proofs that a lad’s beauty is greater than female beauty at any age.”
Dahia answered: “May Allah pardon you your fallacious arguments, unless, perhaps, you advance them merely as a joke. Be that as it may, the time has come for truth to triumph; therefore do not harden your heart but prepare to admit the verity of what I say.
“Tell me, in Allah’s name, where we may find a youth whose beauty is comparable with that of a young girl? A girl’s skin has not only the light and whiteness of silver but the softness of silk. Her waist is a branch of myrtle, her mouth a flowering camomile, her lips to moist anemones. Her cheeks are apples and her breasts are little ivory gourds. Light shines from her forehead and her brows ceaselessly hesitate as to whether they should meet or part. When she speaks, there is a flash as of fine pearls; when she smiles, a river of sunlight flows out of lips sweeter than honey and softer than butter. The seal of beauty has made the dimple of her chin, and her belly is beautiful. The lines of her thighs are excellent, folding one over the other. Her flanks are fashioned all of one ivory and her feet are moulded of almond paste. Her bottom is full and not depressed, the waves of a crystal sea or mountains of the moon. Old man of weak understanding, do you not know that kings, khalifahs, and all the great of the annals, have bowed themselves to the yoke of women, considering it a glory? Mighty men have knelt before them, leaving riches, land, father and mother, and even kingdoms for their sake. On their account palaces rise to heaven, silks are woven and stuffs brocaded. Because of them amber and musk, which have a sweet smell, are sought over the whole earth. Their beauty has damned the dwellers in Paradise, has overset the earth, and made rivers of blood to spring forth among all nations.
“You have quoted from the Book, but it is more favourable to my contention than to yours. The Book says: ‘Do not look long upon beardless boys, for their eyes hold more of temptation than the yes of huris.’ Now that is direct praise of the huris, who are women and not boys. I have always noticed, too, that you, who love boys and wish to describe them, compare their caresses with those of girls. You are not ashamed of your corrupt tastes; you parade them, you satisfy them in public. You forget the words of the Book: ‘Why do you seek out male love? Has not Allah created women for the satisfaction of your desires, that you may enjoy them as you will? But you were ever a stiff-necked people.’ When you compare girls with boys, you simply flatter your corrupt desires. We know your boy-loving poets well! The greatest of them all, Abu Nuwas, the king of pederasts, spoke thus of a young girl:
You have no hips
And you have cut your hair,
Also their lies a light shade even
Upon your lips.
Dear child, by this exceptions and this dearth
You’ll have two kinds of lovers upon earth
And more in heaven.
“As for the pretended attraction of a beard in young men, a poet has answered that excellently:
Wise lovers fled at the first ugly hair
Which charcoal-smutched that chin beyond compare,
When the white page is covered with black prose
Who but a fool would write his lyrics there?
“Give thanks to Allah for uniting in women every joy of life, and promising to prophets, saints and all believers, marvellous girls for their reward in Paradise. If the All-Good had thought that there could be any pleasant lusts apart from women, He would have reserved them for and promised them to His faithful servants after their death. But Allah only mentions young boys as being servants of the elect in Heaven; He does not speak of them as having any other function. The Prophet himself (upon whom be prayer and peace!) had no sort of leaning in your direction. In fact he used to say: ‘Three things have made me love your earth: woman, perfume, and the beauty of a soul in prayer.’ I cannot recapitulate my argument better than by quoting this verse of the poet:
Between the bottoms of the young
(Now I give freedom to my tongue)
A gulf is fixed.
To approach some is suave incense,
But others, a deep brown offence
Within your garment mixed.
Who dare
Compare
A girl and boy--
What hardihood!--
For nard he would
Employ an old sow’s dung....
Between the bottoms of the young
A gulf is fixed.
“But I see that this discussion has excited me too much and made me pass those bounds of modesty which no woman should cross in the presence of sages and old men. Therefore I beg pardon of any who have found such criticism to make in what I have said, and I rely on them to use discretion in telling others of this argument. The proverb says: ‘The hearts of well-born men are tombs.’”
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